The Kingdom Key Forums: So how does Sora fit in? - The Kingdom Key Forums

So after watching the new trailer video, I've been thinking about how all of the games fit together. Birth by Sleep really seems to be the most important of all, answering many questions in the Kingdom Hearts universe and pulling together many details.

I'm trying to think of how Sora fits in with BbS, and WHY it's so important. Kingdom Hearts is Sora's story- and he is the main character of the series. I believe this has been directly stated by Nomura in an interview, though I'm not sure of which one. But in BbS, Sora himself just doesn't seem that important. The most we've really seen of him is him as a child fighting with Riku on Destiny Islands. So where does he fit in? How is he linked to Birth by Sleep?

Of course, there's the obvious fact that his Nobody, Roxas, looks exactly like Ventus from BbS. There has to be some connection between Ven and Sora, but what is it? I've seen it suggested that they could just be relatives, but, well, that just sounds stupid. If they were relatives, Sora would have recognized Roxas as conveniently looking exactly like Ven. No, there has to be some other connection between them.

In the trailer, DiZ/Ansem the Wise is speaking. We don't know at what time he's speaking- if it's before the apprentices betray him, if it's after the events of BbS, or even if he's speaking during the time of KH/KH2. All we have to go by is what he says as he "narrates" the new trailer.

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Now, we're not POSITIVE who Ansem the Wise is talking about here. But what it sounds like to me is that he's referring to Sora. We know that Sora is connected with everyone he runs into. This is a running theme throughout KH. Additionally, as DiZ is saying this, we see two shots of Sora, past (as a child, in BbS) and present (in his KH2 outfit on Destiny Islands). But what I really find interesting is this: "Then he will be able to burst open the door and save those souls trapped in despair..."

Who is he talking about? What souls?

Allow me to bring up another interesting quote.

"We must return to free them from their torment."
-Jiminy's Journal, Coded

Who are "they?" What is their torment?

We know that Coded and Birth by Sleep are deeply linked, so there is reason to believe that Jiminy's Journal and Ansem the Wise are refferring to the same "they."

"At the moment Coded does not have any connections with 358/2 Days, but Birth by Sleep is deeply linked. Birth by Sleep has connections to all the games in the series."
-Nomura, http://thekingdomkey...ews/070309.html

It's pretty much obvious that BbS will NOT have a happy ending. We see that Terra will, most likely, turn to darkness. We've seen Aqua's armor, empty, in the Chamber of Awakening. We know that Roxas takes on Ven's appearance exactly. We don't know the fate of these three Keyblade-wielding heroes, but it doesn't sound like it can be anything good. After all, only ten years later, they've completely disappeared. No one knows anything of them or their Master Eraqus.

I think that the three apprentices, Aqua, Ventus, and Terra, are this mysterious "they." I think, though very likely they're dead at the end of BbS, there is a possibility that they're alive, somewhere, waiting to be saved from their torment/despair.

I'm not sure how everything else fits into this. I haven't figured out where "they," if they are the apprentices, are. I don't think Xehanort is Terra. It seems as though Aqua is in the Chamber of Awakening, though if she is or just her armor is is a mystery, as far as I know. We've seen Terra in Castle Oblivion, where the Chamber of Repose is. I haven't seen anything to suggest Ven's fate.

I don't know how the title, Birth by Sleep, fits into my theory. I'm not sure what the Unversed are, or how Master Xehanort or Vanitas really fit into this theory (though I think Vanitas, if not Master Xehanort as well, could have a lot to do with "their torment"). I do think Vanitas is the Xehanort we know.

There are a lot of mysteries in this game to consider, but I really do think that the apprentices, and possibly their Master Eraqus, are the ones who need to be freed. I think this will have a lot to do with KH3. Perhaps you are Sora, trying to find and save the apprentices?

Thoughts?

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Yeah, I agree. I'm almost positive the ending of BbS will be sad/negative. If you watch the final segment of the new BbS Trailer, it screams negativity. Aqua sheds a tear, Ven appears to be dead/frozen/depressed, and Terra shows frustration. Those are only a few of the hints that BbS will end on a bad note, there's more but I forget them.

As for who AtW is talking about in his narrative... I'm not sure. Once I think of something, I'll post it up on here. But I'm pretty sure Sora's role in KH3 (or whatever the next main game in the series will be called) will be either to find the 'tormented' beings or defeat the things that are 'tormenting' them, whatever they are. The Unversed?

BbS probably is just for informational purposes, to learn more about the past Keyblade wielders and to learn about the histories of some of the character and the connections the current characters have with the past Keybladers. I think we'll learn about the connections Sora has with each of them, especially Ven.

WOW, WAY TO BASICALLY STEAL MY THEORY. HOAR

I'm not sure which Secret Ansem report it is but Ansem says that he found Xehanort a couple years before his heart research began or something like that. Not to forget in the other reports it says Mickey came to see him 10 years ago and he had a key. Xehanort seemed to be well in the research already so it had to be at least 1 more year so Xehanort will probably not be answered

It's been said countless times that part of Birth by Sleep's purpose will be to explain just who Xehanort is.
If Xehanort's identity weren't a big part of this game, it would have very little point.

It's true that Ansem the Wise will have his apprentices working for him at the time of Birth by Sleep, and you're right that it is at least "some years" after finding Xehanort that Ansem truly begins his research that sets off the creation of Heartless and Nobodies. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Xehanort will already be an apprentice of Ansem during Birth by Sleep (in fact, that wouldn't make any sense, seeing as how Vanitas and Master Xehanort are running around at this time as well).

"Secret Ansem Report 1" said:

This could explain the obvious difference in Ienzo's human age and apparent Nobody age. Xehanort becomes an apprentice of Ansem at the end of Birth by Sleep, or at least shortly after Birth by Sleep, and a few years later, their research into the heart's darkness begins.

Anyway, Becky, I think it's a pretty interesting theory. Xemnas speaks to Aqua's armor in the Chamber of Repose, referring to it as "old friend" (whether or not he was being sarcastic has yet to be explained), and Xigbar even tells Zexion that he heard another voice answer Xemnas on such an occasion.

So it's very possible that Aqua, Ven, and Terra still exist somewhere, but perhaps not truly alive or free.

It could be that Aqua is in the Chamber of Repose, Terra is in the Chamber of Waking, and Ven is... within Sora/Roxas?

Then again, we could be wrong about Vanitas being Xehanort. That could mean that Xemnas is Terra, now dead, Aqua is in the Chamber of Repose, and Ven is in the Chamber of Waking.



Chamber of Waking in Birth by Sleep?

I probably should have given this thread a different title- while I did want to discuss how Sora fits in, I was more focused on the Aqua, Ven, and Terra aspect of my theory. XD

Meggie Keyblader®, on Dec 29 2009, 07:58 PM, said:

Yes, I agree that the "tormented" beings will likely be the main focus of the next game after this. But I stand by the thought that those being tormented are Aqua, Ven, and Terra, particularly after what AtW said in the new trailer. AtW used the word "souls" rather than simply "beings," which leaves more of a human connotation than a "being." I'm not sure why the Unversed would need to be saved, if they're an enemy. We don't even know what they are, why they suddenly appear in BbS, and why they suddenly disappear after.

I mean, so far we HAVE had happy endings to KH games (well, except for Days, I suppose). But I really don't see how this game could have a happy ending. If it had a happy ending, Aqua, Ven, and Terra would probably still be around kicking ass in KH/KH2. The only thing that could make this game have even somewhat of a happy ending is the apprentices living, somehow, waiting to be found and saved.

But yeah, how they're connected with Sora will be interesting, especially with Ven.

Mr. Devious, on Dec 29 2009, 08:26 PM, said:

Stole your theory...? I don't remember you saying anything like this earlier. The only part that was influenced by things you said was the part about Sora being the one Ansem the Wise was talking about. The rest I put together after while thinking about the other things AtW said.

Tsukasa, on Dec 29 2009, 08:26 PM, said:

Not sure what this has to do with my theory here. Can you please explain? Though as Strax said, Nomura DID say that one of the most important aspects of BbS will be to explain who Xehanort was, so we can be sure we'll be seeing him.

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This is kind of what I was thinking. But how would those things be tormenting them? I don't know anything about the Chambers of Repose/Waking, and being inside Sora can't be THAT torturous. I mean, it makes sense that those would be their locations, but it doesn't quite fit in with them being tormented. Hmm...

But again, I REALLY don't think Terra is the Xehanort we now know. I mean, there are things to be said for that theory and reasons it could make sense, but as you've said before I think it just doesn't really fit. We know that Terra most likely gives in to darkness based on what we've seen, but I don't think that would make him all bad unless he was somehow possessed. Riku, for example, gave in to darkness, but it didn't turn him into a bad person. He followed the wrong path for a while, and did things in shameful ways. But as with Riku, I don't see Terra becoming totally evil after giving into darkness.

Not that it's not possible that Terra is Xehanort. I just think it makes much more sense for Vanitas, a very obviously evil character, to be the evil Xehanort we know now.

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Really? I didn't know that. That's assuring. xD Now we won't feel like idiots if the game never once ends up mentioning Xehanort, which would be disappointing, and about 2/3 of all the KH theories would be useless. I was afraid BbS was going to end up being about stuff most people hadn't even cared to speculated about.

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This actually makes a lot of sense. KH is still half-Disney, so I doubt that a Disney game would result in a completely depressing ending. While it's obvious that Terra, Aqua and Ven are defeated, they're probably still around somewhere, probably somewhere connected to Riku, Kaira and Sora. That'd be an interesting plot for KH3.

Apparently in the latest Nomura interview, he says that while the game ties to the theme of bonds between friends and all that happy stuff, it's definitely got quite the sad story for our heroes.

I think this ties pretty closely to what Becky's getting at. While there's a sad ending, it could be hopeful for the heroes, for future titles.

My theory is that the last episode of Coded is ACTUALLY important (I know, crazy). Many people assume that episode 7 is the final episode - I personally don't believe that, but I digress - and that it will now lead into KH3.
For those of us not able to play Coded, the game ends with the Journal fully completing its bug-removal progress, its hidden memories are unlocked, and the door to a new Data World is opened. Mickey steps through it alone.

What Mickey finds in this world could be closely related to his letter to Sora at the end of KH2, as well as Terra, Ven, and Aqua. Coded, in all its episodes, has not revealed any clues as to who "them" are in the line "We must return to free them from their torment."

Straxton, on Jan 2 2010, 12:32 PM, said:

Yeah, exactly my thoughts after reading the interview. Everything I see really just seems to strengthen my theory, especially some of Nomura's latest comments in the most recent interview.

Alright, alright... It's only possible for people to run into the Chamber of Waking in Birth by Sleep.
The Chamber of Repose was built by Xemnas beneath Hollow Bastion, meaning it didn't exist back in the days of Birth by Sleep (Unless it was destroyed and rebuilt later by Xemnas).

Because the Chamber of Repose was built by Xemnas, it makes sense that there are Nobody symbols all over the place.
But given the recent trailer with Ven inside what is most likely the Chamber of Waking, and the symbols all over its walls, I'd say that Keyblade masters built it beneath Castle Oblivion. This doesn't have anything to do with my next question, but it's just a note I had.

So... Why in the world is Aqua's armor in the Chamber of Repose? It's not possible for Xemnas to have been carrying it around since the days of Birth by Sleep. So maybe he found it somewhere?

Also, Axel said in Days that he never found the Chamber of Waking while searching Castle Oblivion, post-CoM, but we know he's got this obsession with Roxas. We know Lea met Ven. What if he found the Chamber, possibly with Ven inside (or his armor), and didn't tell Xemnas?

... Yeah I'm just shooting in the dark now, I'll stop.

No, that makes a lot of sense. Even before thinking of any of this, or seeing Ven in the Chamber of Waking, I didn't believe Axel when he said he didn't find it. What he found there- who knows?


The only thing I've found that just really doesn't make sense to me concerning my theory- How does what Mickey, Data Sora, and the others are doing "lessen" their torment (enjoy that awful grammar)? I mean, Mickey and Data Sora are just going through and "debugging" a fake Data World made through the journal, as far as I understand (we've got summaries of each episode on the Coded section of the main site, for anyone not up to speed). So whatever their torment is, assuming they are the apprentices... How is it being lessened through the events in Coded?

Hmm... Well, the hidden memories within the Journal are unlocked as further bugs and corruptions are deleted. I'd say it might be referring to the progress made that ultimately leads to this new world.

While not directly relieving "them" of their torment, it could ultimately lead to their freedom.

I suppose that's true, but "Their torment has been lessened" does seem to imply that something is happening at that time that actually lessens their torment.